A little story to cheers you all,an Indian Family move to NZ and start a little store and put their kids thru school.A Chiness family follow and start a small fish n chips shop,put kids thru school and are doing well.Mean time a Samoa family also move to NZ and start to build a very big church,also buy the pastor a big house.And you say church and culture are NOT mix.All power to the Faleula,and their hard work.Blessings Puipuifatu.

Praises are to the "Faleula" but do they deserve it? I don't think so. There is someone very special who has visioned this problem and he himself suggested what to do about it. Now, this Faleula is reviving it. Its not credit to them. Leaula Tavita has been arguing on this issue several years now. He seems to point out that church is the root of economic problem. All honors and good things are to the church which devaluates the culture. But it is not. It is not the church or even the culture that creates the problem. Its the person itself. He is in control of everything.
peace

Its not the church nor the culture....
Its the person itself. I guess it comes from our Pride to do better than others.
I go to church too...I do my own budget, I cant give everything to church while my kids are hungry. And thats nor the Will of GOD. I dont care if Pais offer is higher than me....because if you do, that is when things go wrong. Everything has a limit.....you decide to beat your limit, you need to work harder.
There are fomulas for solving problems....you can rearrange or merge them to build other fomulas.
But there is no fomula for all the fomulas....If theres one like it....It could be GODs fomula.

I love my country....I love my culture....all in all I love GOD....

This has been Samoa's nightmare ever since Christianity landed. We have always trying forever to mix the two things, culture and christianity.
But while it is very interesting to see that some areas of the culture are molding in well with our christian beliefs, it is totally insane to say that the two should always go together in almost anything.

Christian principles are based on what Christ has laid down according to scriptures. Culture on the other hand is based on human beliefs and/or experiences and our everyday lifestyle as was passed down thru generations.

What the Faleula is trying to do is to level the playing field for all both rich and poor so that everyone enjoys without too much pressure. In christian principles on giving, what your left hand gives, your right hand must never know. Now, the culture is very much the opposite, it says that when one gives, we should announce it so everyone knows.
This is not supposed to be happening in the church which is an entity that practices christian principles. This is one of the many examples of the two things that cannot be mixed together.
I hope the mainline churches and the powers that be take this into serious consideration and change our course for the betterment of our people and to the glory of our Lord. Soifua

..."God be the Foundation of Samoa"( English interpretaiton of the Samoan Flag motto ?)

It is clear from the declaration on the Samoan flag, that God was invited in from the beginning to be part of the culture.
May be God Himself has allowed this issue to surface, so that both the culture and the church can examine it together with the aim of moving both the church and the culture forward, with positive results and outcomes that would benefit both the church and the culture .( spiritually and financially?).

If Samoan church families are put under some type of (ungodly) pressure and ‘false’ obligations, to give more than is necessary to the church, resulting in them neglecting their own basic family needs and mismanagement of their personal finances, then I would say, that may be the church and its leaders have been culturally trained to become more dependent upon human channels to meet their needs ( and the churches’), rather than looking primarily to God to be their provider, (through whatever source that He would use, or insights and creative strategies given to meet those needs).

My hunch is, if that is what has been happening in the practical physical realm, then it would also be effect in the spirit. ( cause and effect...”as in the physical, so in the spirit” ). It would be like a ‘ heavy yoke of bondage’ to the people, that is very constricting and unlike Jesus ’ yoke' and ‘burden'. ( ie:...”my yoke is easy and burden is light”...Math 11:30 ). So YES, there would definitely be something that is out of alignment spiritually, that would need to be corrected.
Hopefully, the church leaders involved with discussions, are spiritually alert and aware of what the real issues are, with sharpened discernment and ability to separate the chaff from the precious wheat and not just being ‘religious’. There is a great difference.
(Also... seeking providential inspirations and creative strategies for their churches’ financial needs, as well as teaching biblical financial management and stewardship to its flock...a great way to go.).

An interesting quote related to finances by a christian author:
“One evidence that we have been truly freed from the yoke of the spirit of poverty is financial independence. Financial independence does not necessarily mean that we are rich, or can buy anything we want. It does mean that we are free of every financial yoke, so that we only have to make decisions based on what the will of the Lord is, not on how much money we have or do not have.”


From various experiences of ‘church’ in Samoa (when I visited there in late 70s and early 90s ), I found that there was a lot of mixture of human ‘wisdom’ as well as samoan culture and “traditions of men” taken on board as “‘church’”. (eg: in one village church, there was some type of list which had people’s names and the specific amount of money/ finance given which was read out for EVERYONE to hear !) If there ever was a ‘carnal’ practice, that would be one of them. I don’t think that type of practice is ‘christian’. ( There was definitely no heeding of the scriipture: ... “Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be SEEN by them ... 2:So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men...3:But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be lin secret...” )

But I am sure there are churches who do value and nurture God’s pure presence, and do seek to hear and obey the leadings of His Holy Spirit, with pure motives and without all the other human fleshly stuff ).

Anyway, it is great that there is some type of discussion going on about this issue, as I think it is very important, both for the church and the culture in which they live.
At the same time, also fully aware that ‘church leaders’ as well as the traditional village leaders - “ The Faleulas”, are fallible humans with same potential to make mistakes, and unwise decisions so, SO I hereby pray for Godly wisdom, insight and light for them all. With Blessings upon all!

( Here is a link to an interesting article by a christian, (anglo saxon) on the issue of:
“The Kingdom,The Church, and Culture”, - http://www.etpv.org/2007/tktcac.html ).

If Culture and Religion are seperate as the ministers said in the discussion, why then is this not evident in everyday life in Samoa and outside of Samoa in Samoan mainstream churches?
Culture and Religion definately go hand in hand thats how the parishioners see it If that is not the case with the Theological teachers of Religion today, than John Williams in 1830 should of made it it crystal clear to the newly established church not to include any form of Samoaness in Christ`s Church. Im not against culture or the Christian faith. Im EFKS born raised and will die EFKS. My culture in the church identifies me as Samoan. Christian.
Good topic something to think about this Christmas.

Manuia!
But

Neither are to blame but man`s ignorant pride!
The Bible say`s in the 16th chapter of Fa`ataoto (proverbs 16) about pride. The way pride is used for mans gain can be harmfull but i dont put the blame on Religion and Culture.
I love the Samoan culture
I love the EFKS church i belong to.

God is Good!