Comments for Sogi Relocation and the Melanesianization of a Samoan problem at http://www.samoalivenews.com , comment 0 to 18 out of 18 comments http://www.samoalivenews.com Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:34:51 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1386 Here in America for so many years, our laws made it so that if a man and woman lived together for about 7 years, they were considered under the law as married--in that, whatever belongings both had, they had to split them equally. If I were ya'll, I think I would search the laws there to see if there is something similar--maybe having to do with agriculture--aquaculture or any such things under your laws. Good luck, I hope ya'll win. Jim Ryan - Boy Scout Thu, 15 May 2008 07:32:55 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1364 Ae sao la Dr. ,,manuia lenei vaiaso ua amata Dr Asenati,,alofa tele atu i Samoa, Ace the Samoan to the bone. - ace Tue, 13 May 2008 08:03:22 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1363 Ok Im pretty sure this is now more of a personal argument instead of arguing according to the issue.So I do apologise if whatever I said offended anyone.I also do apologise Dr Asenati(aunty Nati :)) if we caused any inappropriate disturbances regarding your main area of study and interest.E le aoaia e laupua tamafaiga,ma oute talitonu e ao lava ona faalogo mulimai ia muamai.. Anyway,may you all have a blessed day and of course,Ace and Olo,this is your chance!Go hard guys..you two should join a debate team.. Take care and God bless.. - Victoria Graduate Tue, 13 May 2008 00:20:08 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1362 Seriously..some people just dont no when to give up.And for whoever wrote the comment above,my goodness,are you insane?I am on the same side as Dr Liki.And for your information,both of you,whoever you are,I am one of the suli of the Solomon people.Im both German and Solomon.Dr Liki is a member of my aiga.So please do not waste my time with your childish arguments,maybe when you do get to write a thesis of your own then you can criticise all you want.And seriously,listen to yourself first before you write another comment,goodness sake you bring a bad name to the Samoan educators reputation! And Ace..somehow,we will end up on the same track..youll see! - Victoria Graduate Mon, 12 May 2008 23:25:08 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1357 Who cares what University you went to? Are we supposed to bow down and kiss Victoria University's pavements? Most people outside of NZ have never even heard of Victoria University. I think the argument put by Dr Asenati of the NUS was much more succinct and holds more validity than the theory brought up by Victoria Graduate. - Olo Mon, 12 May 2008 16:05:19 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1351 Malo lava. Faafetai mo fautuaga lelei, faatupu manatu, faatatau i lenei pepa. E faamalulu atu foi pe afai ua sala se gagana a le auauna. O le pepa lava ia sa tusia e fa'aalia ai foi ni lagona i lenei mataupu o loo fetosoa'i faapa'utolo a loi i lenei vaitaimi e si o tatou malo; ma tali ai foi le valaau fa'aaloalo mai a le SAWG. O o'u lagona foi ua fa'aalia, o lagona na o a'u lava. E le o taea ai le lautele o le paia ma le mamalu o le afioaga i Sogi poo le paia foi o Aiga i Samoa atoa. Ou te malamalama foi, o manatu uma o i latou ua faaalia i lenei talanoaga, o lagona lava na o le tagata ia. Ma e sa'o lava le tagata i ona lagona, pei o lea upu. Aua foi ne'i avea o tatou lagona faaalia i lenei mataupu ma mea e to'ia ai le va fealoaloa'i ma le ava fatafata. E maualuga tele ia te a'u le faatinoina o le agaga fa'aaloalo ma tausia pea lo tatou nofo fetufa'ai e ala i le faaalia o lagona ma manatu. Faapitoa le faafetai mo Sam Afa (my former student) ma si a'u uo o Sailiemau. Faafetai le faasoa mai. O lena ua tuuina atu la'u email address, e mafai foi ona faasoa mai ai pe a tusa ai ma lou finagalo. Faamanuia tele le Atua i galuega ma aoaoga o feagai ai. Soifua. Asenati. - asenati liki-chan tung Mon, 12 May 2008 12:27:15 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1348 Here is what you said in your argument against the person who wrote that "we never brought the solomon islanders to samoa so why we should be responsible for relocation?" Victorain graduate: "I am a graduate of Victoria University and it is safe to say that the reason why Solomon Islanders were recruited was because the samoans were described as lazy and lack the potential to accumulate profits" So Mr King made the comment that influenced the germans decision to bring in the solomons according to your joke and Meleisea endorsed the comment by using it to misinform you while you struggled to earn your degree? Who do you think you are fooling? hehehe!!! And it is sad if the graduates of Victoria University are just as misinformed as you. It seems that the school of common sense has just taught you a lesson a ea? The value system of the germans or that of Mr the King should not be used to judge the Samoans of that time, because the Samoans had a different one altogether as I have pointed out. The argument from the learned Dr whose forefathers lived at Sogi states that "more weight should be put on the fact that her ancestors were descendants of matais as well hence qualified the Sogi people as sulis" (paraphrasing what she wrote). The problem is, though her ancestors were sulis of matai titles, I don't think they were sulis of the Mataafa title or other titles who have the right to this area (now known as Sogi). Dr also stated that Sogi was simply a swamp at the beginning, but if Meleisea or whoever taught you have done a good job on your brain, they should have taught you that the pule-faa-sao in the old Samoa comes from the "tuasivi to the ocean". That nullifies the argument that Sogi was only a swamp. If the learned Dr and her forefathers are descendants of the sao titles of the region (Faleata and othe villages) then Dr has a claim, otherwise, I have argued in samoan to leave the area to the tuganes, the avaavas and the anaes who were the original inhabitants of Sogi while the overstayers move to Falelauniu. E a, are we still on the same track? hehehe!! - ace Mon, 12 May 2008 07:45:03 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1345 Seems the comment above has taken a critical personal angle.Im not so sure if youre a graduate of some prestigious University or if you ever graduated,but if you were indeed a graduate as I assmue you are,then youd clearly know what I am talking about.The Samoans being called 'lazy' was a comment made by the famous historian Michael King and was used by the Samoan historian Malama Meleisea,it was not intended to hurt or offend the Samoans but it was the truth.Now,I assume you are going to reply and call me a want-to-know-it-all sorta person.But this matter is not about how the Germans treated the people like they were slaves,slavery was in fact a part of colonial life.The Samoans dodging this system was unacceptable.It poses a theory that the Samoans were not capable,that is not the nature of the Samoa people.This is merely an argument concerning the Solomon Islanders and the Sogi villagers.And dont you ever, ever criticise the University like that,only a fool like yourself would do such an immature act like that.It suprises me considering youre from the school of common sense.So why dont YOU try to be a fully-fledged citizen and come to your senses that youre debating on the wrong track. - Victoria Graduate Mon, 12 May 2008 00:38:24 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1342 I am a graduate of the school called common sense which enlightened me concerning the ethnology of the Samoans of the past and even of today. Germany was a colonial power and their coconut slave driving (to the eyes of the Samoans of that time) wasn't something to be appreciated. Samoans of that time were not use to working to a set time like a machine that is turned on in the morning then turned off in the evening. To a Samoan, that was no life, however, there was a minority that championed the way of the white man (in terms of the way he calculated his work and the profits that followed etc). I guess they were slowly introduced to capitalism at that stage something which they found to be sweet. On the other hand, those that refused to work for the Germans found the colonial power's idea of slavery at the coconut plantations an affront to their way of thinking where the "sao" of the family was to be served not a foreigner like the colonial power. So just because the germans looked at the samoans of that time as lazy doesn't mean that their belief was based on facts. If they were facts, then my common sense tells me that they were facts based on "their own value system" and as pointed out, a value system that the samoans looked at as strange. So why don't you give back your degree to the university until your common sense is matured enough or inline with what theory you have learned from the institution? - ace Sun, 11 May 2008 20:46:50 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1339 Going home? Home, for Sogi people, is Sogi. They are not asking to move. The government is asking them to move. So if this is the government's idea, then surely the government should pay for relocation. That is what is being argued here. - JM Sun, 11 May 2008 12:37:15 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1335 Very interesting angle to take Dr Asenati.It is always fascinating to read about such academic history regarding how Samoa's society came to be.I read a cooment previously saying something about Samoa never brought the Solomon Is. recruits to work the plantations instead of hiring their own people.The thing is,whoever wrote that comment sounded like he/she was playing with the 'race' card, by saying and I quote, "we never brought you over to Samoa so why should we be responsible in the relocation?".The race card is a very risky and dangerous move to make.I am a graduate of Victoria Univeristy and it is safe to say that the reason why Solomon Islanders were recruited was because the Samoans were described as 'lazy' and lacked the potential to accumulate profits.It is implied that these recruits worked the land and helped developed the Samoan economy in the early days.Although, a few Samoans were indeed capable of stepping up to the challenge,and this saved the people from prolonged embarrassment.As part of a reciprocity act,the governement can,at the least,develop and implement some sort of policy to relocate the Sogi residents,if not then maybe improve their standard of living,both socially and physically.It might take time,but it can be done!After all,our PM and his current government can indeed accomplish anything.. Well done Dr Liki and keep inspiring us! - Victoria Graduate Sun, 11 May 2008 03:41:43 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1311 Faafetai Dr Asenati. This is an informative, well argued and balanced story of this part of Samoan history that is not well known and not even taught during the colonial and our present education/school curriculum. But these histories and their often ugly divisive categories and language should be exposed and then stamped out for the ignorance that they breed. The terms afakasi, afasaina, afameauli, etc now tamauli and teine uli, are labels that were used to describe descendants of these marriages. Samoa and its culture has been enriched by these unions; affairs of the heart are what makes the world go round and round. It is with great pride and huge credit to our faa-Samoa that our lineages and genealogies entitle suli whether they are full-Samoan, afa-Samoa, kuata or whatever or afa-palagi afa-saina, afa-meauli, afa-niue, afa-tonga they are suli "heirs", flesh and blood of our aiga). This means that they have a right to land, titles as kin members who fully participate, obligate and reciprocate in everyday faa-Samoa. Let us not point fingers at who and when and what was done, there is more than meets the eye with what government is doing these days. Before we jump the gun on Sogi residents the government (representatives of the people) in whatever policies they wish to implement must go through proper channels and procedures of a democratic nation! Pitting people against people and subterfuge calculations are divisive politics. We as a people should and must refrain from such tactics. Our cousins in Aotearoa and Hawaii are in constant struggle to revive indigenous notions of family and what it is to be Hawaiian in their own terms. Unfortunately, their present situations have been determined largely by outside metropolitan powers mainly the United States and United Kingdom. Our forefathers and foremothers have though hard for our independence not for a select few or those in power, but for all the Samoan people. So that we and those in leadership roles must do our utmost n everything that we do to maintain and retain this legacy of "tofa mamao ma le tofa saili" for our future generations. May our leaders lead with love and integrity, care for one another irrespective of political party, and especially serving and doing what is just and good for Samoa and its people. Ia manuia le faasausauga i le mamalu ma le paia i si o tatou atunuu pele o Samoa. Soifua. - sailiemanu lilomaiava Thu, 08 May 2008 00:58:11 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1273 Its such an interesting topic and am intrigued by the many events that went on afterwards as per the Drs dialogue. However, Sogi people to be relocated is very much an issue I am personally unwilling to support. Why should the Samoan govt be responsible in allocating more lands to these people. I recalled in the early 1990s, that each families in Sogi were allocated a piece of land at Vaitele, some of these areas were right opposite the Vaitele EFKS church, which is prime land if compared to the other Vaitele dwellings. And I know personally that some of them took on the option of selling these lands and decided to remain in Sogi while using the money for whatever reasons. My question to Dr Liki is to look in to this issue of land exploitation because no one in its true mind is to be rewarded with 2 peices of land. By the way we never brought u over to Samoa so why should we be responsible in the relocation. If u cannot agree with wherever u will be sent to, then the only solution is to GO HOME to the Solomon Islands, u might be given free lands there. - Real Hamo Mon, 05 May 2008 16:38:27 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1242 The government isn't putting a racial spin on this. It is the media and certain letter-writers to the media who are putting a racial spin on this matter. - Olo Sun, 04 May 2008 13:35:24 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1236 Thank you Dr. Ansenati. Didn't know too much about the' Melanesian Connection' in Samoa, but I knew it was there like most people. With so many 'Afekasi's' in Samoa.... why is the government putting a 'Racial' spin on this issue? - davis Sun, 04 May 2008 06:42:30 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1232 Manaia le manatu o Dr, ae o lona faalavelave foi, e le o ta'ua Sogi i lalo o se suafa matai e pei o eleele Samoa (traditional land) uma e i lalo o le pule faamatai. A fai na o mai tama uli meli pe fetaui foi ma teine hamo i luga o lea fasi eleele o na faaee lea o le gafa o Dr, e tatau la na fai se finauga e fai lea fasi eleele e tau o Sogi ma faasao e "faamataaga" e pei o se museum, aua o le mea na faaivi ai le mata o tama uli ia teine Samoa ma suia ai loa le igoa Sogi ia "faaivi-ga-mata" aua le turisi maimoa mai fafo. A fua la i lea fasi finauga ua ou ta'ua ma faatusa i le manatu o Dr, o na tatou maua lea o le mea e tatau lava o na i ai. O le fesili, o ai la e anaia moni lava lea oga mea ua tau o Sogi? O le tali, o le toeaina o Tugane. Aua na usu Tugane ia Aa-togo faaee le gafa o le fanau e toatele o lo o tigaina fafine Vaiusu, Vaitele, Toamua ma isi nuu e la'u mai i le maketi. Na faapena foi le usuga a Anae po'a ia Anae fafine, o Avaava po'a ia Avaava fafine o i latou lava na na uluai faaipoipo i lea oga lalolagi ua ta'ua nei o Sogi, ma e tele atu la latou aia i Sogi na i lo tama uli ma teine hamo. O fea la le amiotonu i nei mea? Ave suli o teine hamo ma tama uli i Falelauniu, ae tuu le pule i le aiga Sa-Tugane, Sa-Avaava ma Sa-Anae aua o i latou ia na mua i malae, o i latou foi na sa molimau i taimi na fai ai le faaivi-ga-mata. ia manuia outou matua, ae ola i matou le fanau ia manuia le aso Sa o tamaiti - ace Sat, 03 May 2008 21:11:11 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1205 I came away from reading this article a little more enlightened about the history of our Melanesian counterparts. A very informative and concise executive summary if you will. Interestingly enough I am a former student of Dr Asenati but I never had any insight as to her background. Dr Asenati presents an interesting angle from a "geneology" perspective which actually does make a good argument. The Melanesians brought here by colonial entrepreneurship have immersed themselves in our society and culture. Unfortunately they often are easily segmented from the Samoa mainstream based on the "tama uli" aspect of their appearence. Ask them if they think they are more Melanesian or Samoan? My guess is that its the latter. Yet the govt aproaches it as the former. Clever way to put a convenient spin on the relocation plan. There will be no equity for the residents of Sogi if the approach that govt takes is flawed from the outset. Kudos Dr Asenati for identifying the flaw and enlightening us. Hopefully the issue is not labelled, as the old clique says, as "academic". Because yes it seems the govt does what it wants these days. While the facts are pondered by academics. - Sam Afa Thu, 01 May 2008 13:16:04 +0100 http://www.samoalivenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=59#pc_1201 Lately it seems like the government is not listening to the people and their concerns. The way I see it, the government is more power driven trying to prove a point that they are in charge than serving the people of Samoa. The MPs are more concerns about Keeping their jobs within the party than serving the people that elected them. The people of Samoa will be suffering because of the division in the status of the people. The richer gets richer and the poor gets poorer. Leave Sogi alone and get a better engineering group to survey the area for flood protection. It does not take a rock scientist to figure out that most of Apia area are below the see level. Elevate Apia and have new building codes with the elevation both land and bldgs. - Jack Thu, 01 May 2008 09:33:04 +0100